we are approaching the top of the hour here on msnbc. we're going to keep watching a number of developing stories in north korea, puerto rico, mexico, trubut ahead this morni on a.m. joy, if you've got this, a.m. joy, the sitdown with hillary clinton. we can't have madmen out there shooting rockets all over the place. by the way, rocketman should have been handled a long time ago. maybe something gets worked out and maybe it doesn't. personally i'm not sure that it will. but i can tell you one thing, you are protected. okay? you are protected. nobody is going to mess with our people. nobody is going to play games. nobody is going to put our people in that kind of danger.
>> good morning, welcome to a.m. joy. donald trump is in full on campaign battle mode again just hours after he once again went after the north korean leader that he's assigned the nickname rocketman and in in return called himself a do tard. a person in the midst of senile decay. officials detected seismic activity in an area where north korea most recent liz conducted a nuclear teasst. it's not clear if it was man made, the result of a missile test or natural. another target claimed on tv, trump's north korea comments came during his bizarre and rambling campaign speech for a senate candidate in alabama last night where trump's many targets
including professional football player colin kaepernick. >> wouldn't you love to see one of these nfl hoeowners when some disrespects the flag he said get that son of a bitch off the field. he's fired. he's fired! joining me now my panel. jason, i'm going to start with you. roger goodell, the nfl commissioner released a statement because in addition to that, in a statement responding to donald trump's going after ko kol colin kaepernick says the nfl and players are at oush best when we help create a sense of unity in our culture. divisive comments like this display disrespect for the nfl and our great game and players and the failure to understand the overwhelming divorceforce o
that our players represent. >> donald trump attacked steph curry this morning on his twitter feed saying going to the white house is considered a great honor for a championship team. stephen curry is hesitating therefore his invitation is gone. adding up he's going after jamel hill saying she should be fired, going after colin kaepernick and now steph curry. do you see a pattern? >> yeah. you're putting him in an unfortunate position of having to say something nice about roger goodell and i don't appreciate that. for the fist time roger goodell actually stood up for the players. this is the only time he's done this in his time as a commissioner. it was the right thing to say. donald trump was out of line. he steps out of line all of the time. that was a good move by roger goodell. all of these people are black and all of these black people
are rich and they've become successful and don't owe donald trump anything. and those things alone will make you the subject of his arire. koln kaepernick was taking a knee before crump got elected. stephen curry notices that going into white house. he's going to have a problem with that. and at the end of the day this is a president who is incapable of functioning under criticism, especially from people of color. >> gentlemjameeemele hill had s to say back to donald trump. she tweeted, just so we're clear, the president's comments will only incite more player protests, not quell them. donald trump is not the boss of the nfl. he had an usfl team, but that failed. donald trump is obviously not speaking to entire country when he speaks which is a strange
thing to happen after an election is over. donald trump is still speaking only to his hard core fans who whoop up at these rallies and chant "lock her up." the breitbart crowd is not on his side in alabama. he's for the other guy, luther strange, the interim replacement for jeff sessions and that whooping crowd may like donald trump but they actually like the other guy, roy moore. what is trump trying to achieve? >> after he gave the afghanistan speech, panned by his base and breitbart he went and did a rally, gave ranting remarks attacking the media and the conservative press ate that up. here we go again, after the whole daca, working with schumer and pelosi, showing them some love, getting attacked by breitbart and conservatives,
does a rally, throws some red meat and also says by the way, if the other guy wins, ie got his back, i'll campaign for him and manages to fall into a culture war that yor shadows while he was is there in the first place in calling out envelope players and today calling out steph curry, one of the most popular athletes on the planet. >> who i'm sure is deaf stated that he doesn't get to hang out with donald trump. celebrities of all kinds are dieing to go to the white house. donald trump likings to play the hits. he plays the hits. so when he gets in front of the crowd -- again, look at the optics here. he keeps going after players of color and people of color. puerto rico is suffering a devastating impact of hurricane maria. the caribbean still suffering devastating impacts from hurricane irma. texas still trying to recover from a devastating hurricane. he doesn't talk about any of that. let's talk to donald trump
playing the hits. >> if hillary clinton got elected, you wouldn't have a second amendment. you would hand in your rifles. here they are. you'd go like -- you'd be turning over your rifles. you got to speak to jeff sessions about that. >> so that was the lock her up chant. there's something low comedy about et and low key sinister about what donald trump is doing. >> absolutely. donald trump has no idea how to be presidential. certainly note in his vocabulary. the part about this too when i watched this, he went through a conundrum that played out right on stage. he has luther strange who he is supporting but in his mind if this guy loses i don't want to
be connected to a loser because it's all about him. and then he's thinking why didn't i support the bigot. gorka? neo-nazi supports the other guy. >> bannon. >> and then there was a little thing you saw play out on stage p . and then the continuing drama that he continues to push, he sunts white supremacy because he sees the people at charlottesville as peaceful people but if you take a knee you need to get tlaun after of the field. can you imagine all of the parents from across the country that have to ban their kids from watching the president of the united states speak sbauz he says bigoted things. >> networks are challenges themselves as to whether or not bleep the president of the united states description of the
american citizen. s.o.b. is rolling off of his tongue. this is a guy in the past or up to now, vulgar as a lot of americans consider him, he reads his audience. he understands there is a base of americans who love this stuff and love him obviously. there are polls that the republicans feel it's his republican party. and yet i wonder if his instinct for the crowd was off a little bit in alabama. this is donald trump kind of going back on his luther strange endorsement in kind of a way. take a look. >> we have to be loyal in life. you know, there's something called loyalty. and i might have made a mistake. and i'll be honest. i might have made a mistake, because hereby's t's the story. if luther doesn't win they're
not going to say we picked up 23 votes, they're going to say donald trump the president of the united states was unable to pull his candidate across the line. >> a lot of what donald trump does is performance. and i wonder at some point the curtain gets drawn back for his base, that donald trump's instinct to washington guy, luther strange, his instinct is to appoint everybody from goldman sachs to cleeb out the boardrooms of goldman sachs and put them in his cabinet, steve mnuchin who likes to land on the roof of government buildings with his actress wife. that that's his instinct of how to staff his team. and his instinct was not to support roy moore who a lot of americans are freaked by but who the alabama base likes. is donald trump revealing that what he does as an act or is he losing his feel for his base? >> i think it's the other side. i think donald trump did a really, really good job on the
roy moore versus luther strange and being able to mitigate any damages when luther strange loses. he's going to lose. he's six to eight point down in three of the important counties in alabama. judge moore is an icon and conservative base because of his stand on the ten commandments. that's what people know. we could get into his campaign, but people were at that rally holding up judge moore signs coming to see donald trump. what i've said on numerous times is donald trump's base of support that he keeps getting firmer and harder for him are very hard for him to ever transfer over in an election unless he's on the ballot. so he positioned himself pretty well to be able to go campaign for the guy that i would have thought he would have been for in the first place. it certainly made him look like a washington insider coming out forsenator strange who was an appointed one who was in messy stuff in alabama before this
happened. at the end of the day donald trump onces reince priebus and steve bannon, you better keep your base intact. if they bleed at all when you need to do the big thing -- which the big thing coming up is the tax package. in order to pay for all of these things, donald trump is going to have to explain to the american public, we're going to have to increase tax revenue. at the end of the day nobody is talking about the deficit right now. and you can watch the tea party come back when that comes. did he make a calculated mistake? he made a washington mistake when us republicans have known for eight years and i can't tell you how many times we've sat at the table and i say how many more times can we run an election running against washington. now we own washington. let's see what the democratic base does. >> is it honorable to whip up racial enmity and too whoop people up against colin kaepernick to get very rich people tax cuts?
>> i don't think -- i can't say it's unhonorable or kwhafwhatev. the donald trump style is different than anything we've ever seen. i understand how he was elected. i understand where the new votes came from and i understand the complete disdain for washington out of our base right now. and that's just not going away. and we'll get into the health care debrat inate in a little w >> two of my panelists are melting in their chairs. i'm going to let them get a final word in. >> well, here's the problem. if roy moore wins on tuesday, republicans are going to see some u.s. senators actually retire. and one of the things that the party is seeing is that if roy moore wins, this could be a competitive seat because in 2012 when roy moore had a state election, he almost lost, 52 to 48. that same year mitt romney won
that state, alabama we 65.4%. there's ooh politics that's playing into this. and then you have doug jones, the democratic nominee who is going to be competitive. >> in alabama? >> i'll tell you. there is one general election poll that actually shows that tested doug jones with either one, strange or moore and it was 43-40. so this is an interesting race and republicans are very worried about very scared about what could happen. >> jason. >> i'll say this. the choice between strange and moore is deciding between the clue clux and the klan. he's perfectly comfortable with those sorts of people. and i think what this speak to regardless of who wins, he ain't loyal. you cannot trust this president under any circumstances and the republicans know that. getting him to go down there to vote for luther strange or support him, it sounds ooh good in the short term.
>> i have to let curt, do you agree with that? really quickly. >> i think what he's doing here, it's the same thing with the stuff curry thing. stuff curry says he's not coming to the white house. donald trump comes out saying you're not invited any way. he knows he's on the losing side of it so he's trying to hedge his bet and go, if the other guy wins, i'm forit. >> you can't fire me, i quit is what he's trying to impart i guess. we'll be back. this is a hell of a segment. thank you guys very much. really appreciate it. up next, the repeal obamacare zombie is not done walking yet. i will tell you why after the break. at ally, we offer low rates on home loans. but if that's not enough, we offer our price match guarantee too. and if that's not enough... we should move. our home team will help you every step of the way. still not enough? it's smaller than i'd like.
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i'm going to go back. it's like a boxer. they get knocked down, get up. knocked down, get up. get knocked down. and then the bad ones they stay on the stool and say we quit. we quit. the great ones get up and end up winning. that's what we're going to do. we might have to go back again and again. i mean like we may make it this time but the most we'll be is one or two votes short. you can't quit when you have one or two votes short. you can't do it. >> the latest republican effort to gut obamacare is hanging by a thread with rand paul and john mccain in the no column. if one more republican becomes a no, obamacare repeal dies again. joining us now, fosh opinion editor 0 vick roy, republican strait just katelyn and crystal
ball. >> people that thought obama care was dead were disappointed when republicans came back with what a lot of people and organizations that deal with the u.s. medical system are calling the worst of all of the bills so far. here's what graham-cassidy would do. repeals the insurance subsidies entirely. it ends the medicaid expansion. replaces affordable care act spending to block great states that are smaller than the money they're getting now. it eliminates the exchanges, allowing higher premiums for people with preexisting conditions. this violates all of the principles that some of the republicans who said they were unfrtable with the repeal said are important to them at the time. how is this good policy or good politics? >> i disagree with some of your characterizations of the bill. if you take, for example, 2026,
obamacare on the medicaid exchanges, they'll spend $221 billion. the block grants that cassidy-graham would assign would be $200 million. it's 10% less money but not dramatically less money. yes, if you want the government to spend more, you won't like this bill. but it's not a dramatic departures from the amount of spending before. the problem is the rushed time line. the fact that you have to have a bill, you throw it there and then it has to be passed by september 30th. you can't make amendments, you can't have hearings, or at least not the detailed hearings that you would normally have. if this bill does end up falling short, that's probably a good thing for policy and for the country because then you'll be able to actually refine the amendments, refine the policy and come out with better health care for the country. >> it is dramatically less spending. and if you're telling states, 50
mishmash health systems and we're going to give you less money and after 2026 we're going to eliminate the spending for the subsidies for people. it's dramatically less money. you're telling the states to do their own thing with less money. it's significantly less. every major group that deals with the medical system in this country has said this bill is a horror, including every single medicaid agency in every state. i want to make that point. >> i disagree with you there. >> you can't disagree with math. >> well, we have a different understanding of the numbers here, i guess. >> the math? >> yeah. >> okay. all right. tara, you are a small business owner. this is something we've had you on a lot. this is your bailiwick. cassidy, the cassidy in cassidy-graham is actual lay a medical doctor. >> yes. >> and one of the things that's interesting about him, the new orleans times did a profile for him when he was running for senate in 2004, saying he worked
at the hospital for a poor for people who couldn't otherwise afford their care from 1990 until the facility closed in 2013. and says even thou cassidy, a grass tro sbrolgs. >> how could a doctor himself write a bill that eliminate preexisting conditions, put lifetime caps on and destroys medicaid? >> this is a perfect example of money and politic. this is all about the do noonor. he worked at charity hospital where you see some of the people who are the most vulnerable in our society. my house worked at charity hospital. any kn he knows what the system is, what the problems is. that's why this is so shameful that he would do this.
a big part of the affordable care act that no one talks about is it work to actually improve care, health care. so it's not just about expanding coverage. it's also about ensuring that doctors treat patients to ensure the best outcome and don't just get incentivized to make their money from tests and procedures that actual care delivery has improved. democrats need to not seed that point because that's the most important part of the process. when people's care improves, costs go down by definition. that is why you see kaiser foundation want all of these groups. you line up who is for this bill and what is against this bill. major entities for this bill are republican donors and gop senators. the people who are against it are kaiser, leading medical organizations, including the american medical association, aarp, leading nursing groups across this country. you're going to side with donors
versus actual people who deliver care? >> krystal, cory gardner, the colorado senator running the reelect committee, the republican senator committee to reelect senators in 2018, admitted that what happened was senators went home and rather than, you know, meet with their constituents and have town halls, they met with the do noshs. and the donors are demanding that republican senators and republican member os tf house deliver on two things. they want their tax cuts and they want them now and they want obamacare gone. this is literally a senator admitting they're doing this just for donors. you live in a southern state. if we go to this federalism system, it's likely to offer very little to the people who are poor in the state of kentucky where you live. >> oh, absolutely. our governor here, matt bevin, we ran on dismantling obamacare.
we've got a double threat here. just to take this out of the abstract and into reality, i wanted to share a story with you that i just found out about from a friend this week who received a scary diagnosis what she has precans rowles ce precancerous cells on her cervix. she's part of the medicaid expansion. she's wondering is she going to have insurance in four months to be able to go in and do what she needs to do. that's just one story out of millions across the country. i'm sure you've heard your own and i'm sure your viewers have their own or have heard their own. i honestly don't know how the senators who are are pushing the bill because it's what the donor community wants, i don't know how they sleep at night. how they think about people like that and the way they're doing to be impacted when they're already facing a scary situation. the last thing they should have to worry about is whether
they're actually going to be able to get the care they need. >> and you know, you're a republican strategist and a good man, i should say. and you know, i'm watching your party do things like write a bill that actively punishes states that tried to expand their exchanges, take money in states that expanded medicaid and give it to states that sued the federal government so they wouldn't have to provide the poor with the medicaid. this will hurts states like ohio. i'm seeing lindsey graham -- i'm going to let you hear what lindsey graham said about the idea of deal making. this is june of this year. >> well, i worry about cornhusker kick backs and louisiana purchases and if they start doing that crap they're going to lose me. i'll vote to proceed. but if you take the money and savings and buying off votes, that's exactly what got her
obamacare. i would rebel against that. >> in this bill this is a proposal apparently that would essentially allow alaska to keep obamacare. just alaska. which probably is unconstitut n unconstitution unconstitutional. they're calling it the alaska purchase and lindsey graham is not talking away. what is going on here morally in terms of what your party is doing and do the people of the southern states get it? >> i think what you see is the state paper in lindsey graham's home state this morning raising the premiums to 31% on the 200,000 people that are in the only single exchange that's left in south carolina. you're seeing folks like me that pay over $30,000 a year for health insurance for me and my wife. you're seeing a lot of politics going on here. and the real question comes down to, it's easy to be for the affordable care act, it's just hard to pay for. >> can i just say one thing to you really quickly. >> sure. >> people like your family and i think that's a genuine problem
that most persons think we need to deal with. the individual marketplace, people who buy their own insurance, is 7% of the market. medicaid is one out of five. it's 20% of the market. so many more people get their insurance through medicaid than people who, let's just be honest, are relatively more affluent and buy their own insurance. what about the 20%, the people who have nursing home care through medicaid, what about the people whose dinner are being paid for. people that don't have your or my or our means. what about them? >> and i understand that. i mean in south carolina where i live, 23% of the population is on medicaid. >> right. >> we're fortunate to have really good companies here managing medicaid care. but that is all the conundrum that we have right now. the question is what we can afford or what can't we afford politically. and republican politicians politically are now in the same shape of having to try to deliver on campaign promises that won us elections for eight
years. and the question i think you're seeing with senator graham and the bill is, i'm not going to undersell his ability to get this passed. he's very talented and a very close friend. but at the end of the day if we leave health care the way it is and don't put some fixes in, i don't know how we can continue to increase this deficits and pay for it. and i think that's what gets lost. >> right. but at the same time your party is saying we can't afford to have a massive tax cut for corporate america and for rich people. ieng going to go very quickly. we're out of time. krystal, very quickly. >> they care so much about the deficit until it comes to giving out tax cuts to rich. the idea that we can't afford this is absurd. obamacare was revenue neutral and this is about priorities and
values and where you want to spend your money. >> i know you want to say something. >> part of why we're seeing premiums rise is because the trump administration is actively sabotaging the affordable care act. every major group has confirmed this. >> i'm being told we're out of time. thank you guys very much. coming up, hillary clinton has a lot to stay about cassidy care. in our next hour, my one on one interview with the former secretary of state. but first, the latest on russiagate. that's next.
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any russians in the audience? are there any russians in the audience, please? i don't see too many russians. i didn't see too many russians in pennsylvania. i didn't see too many russians. >> trump sure seems pretty keen to distance himself from russia. maybe because special counsel robert mueller has requested a large swath of documents from the white house. and at the same time zeroing in on trump's former campaign chairman paul manafort who according to the washington post offered private briefings to a russian billionaire, an ally of vladimir putin in july of 2016. that report raises this question. did manafort use his trump ties for a russian payday? joining me now is democratic representative from california ted lieu, journalist of scholar sara.
this news that ten months plart the department of homeland security, which used to be headed by john kellkelly, final comes out and tell 21 state they were involved in the russian hacking. >> it is highly disturbing that the department of homeland security waited so long to notify this states but also shows clearly that the president of the united states is just lying when he says this is a russia hoax. it is not a hoax. russiacyberattack to help donald trump and hurt hillary clinton. his own intelligence agencies say that and he ought to listen to his own administration staff. >> if democrats controlled the administration, would this be the subject of hearings in. >> absolutely. we need to have a bipartisan commission, like the 9/11 collision to investigate what happened with this russian attack, how do we keep anytime happening again and who is responsible.
>> sara, we have this happening at the same time that there was a massive investigation going on, a tranche of document being requested from the white house, just a list of requests from robert mueller from michael flynn alone, flynn having been the national security adviser, now requests statements fromspi he took. can they see the walls closing in and is that why donald trump is lashing out asking if there are any russians in the audience and again denying he had anything to do with them in. >> he's issuing the same rhetoric. and again he was surrounded by these same people last year, manafort, flynn. he's had these ties. he hasn't been concerned that there would be repercussions for them until now. mueller is just doing his job of
looking not only at the campaign but what's happened since trump has been in the white house, confessing to obstruction of justice on tv and so forth. yeah, of course trump is going to lash out when he's in this position when there's so much visible public evidence against him as well as whatever mueller uncovered on his own. >> and you have now all of these data points. you have the fact that we now know that paul manafort was the subject of wiretaps, the u.s. government wiretapped him, according to cnn, "the wall street journal" and others. we also now know that manafort offered briefings to this russian oligarch days after he was named strategist. he asked how do we get whole. what does this tell you about what manafort's involvement was? was he oopening the door to allow russia to interview via the trump campaign in your view? >> that's exactly right.
first, i believe he wasn't paid by trump. to me that tells me he was given a wink and a nod by trump saying hey, look, you can take many position and make of it what you want. that opened the door for the communications with the russians. i am almost positive that the oligarch walked to the russian intelligence and they took a look at and and figured out thou use it. mueller is going back as far back as 2006. manafort's history reads like a who's who of despots of who he supported. the fact that he didn't register as an agent until 2017 is shocking. to ted's point, this brings up the spector, i had hate to say it, the cold war ended, the counter intelligence has atrophied and as a result it allows the russians to get in. until we fix that, we are at risk. i can't beat that drum loud enough. >> you have here the use of
technology the invade our election. we now know that in terms of using facebook, the daily beast article about promoting trump gatherings, actually promoting meet-ups, demonstrations promoted online, appear to be the first case of russians actually mobilizing americans over facebook in direct support of donald trump. facebook now saying that it will hand over the ads that were bought with rubles, these russian-linked ads over to congress. we now have that aspect of it too. is this being properly investigated by congress? >> the special counsel is definitely on it. he's subpoenaed facebook, trying to get the documents. it's clear that the russians violated law because they were trying to influence our campaign. a foreign power can't do that. if there's evidence that jared kushner who was working on the similar issues during the campaign was coordinating with the russians on who to target,
then jared kushner violated the law and by the way we need to ask why does jared kushner still have a security clearance. >> is this the way that russia shaz operated in other elections or is there something different about the way they did it in our election? >> it's similar to what they've done in other elections, whether in former save yet republics or more recently in their intervention in brexit. i think the use of social media opened up new opportunities for them. but both the use of oligarchs were of moneying laundering, trying to alter political platforms. all of that is similar to what they've done in other places. >> and you've made the point they can do it again because we haven't hardened our defenses at all. >> that's right. look, the cold war ended, the soviet union collapsed, communism failed but russia picked up the mantle. until we take this on as a challenge, they're going to do
it again. >> thank you guys very much for being here. and coming up in our next hour, my one on one interview with hillary clinton. find out if hillary clinton thinks that donald trump is a white supremacist. more a.m. joy after the break. too many children in this neighborhood do not graduate from high school. the kids after school, they are alone and they have nowhere to go and we tried to solve that problem by having this wonderful place where they can be children.
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every resource available to conduct a thorough investigation to determine exactly how this happened. >> that clip was produced by the newly formed committee to investigate russia, a group founded by rob reiner. it has already brought the full force of the russian propaganda machine into attack mode against morgan freeman. the kremlin attacking you and morgan freeman. >> yes. we definitely got under their skin, no question about it. when you see the thousands of bots and trolls come out after you, you know you've done something right. >> tell us how the committee to investigate russia came together. >> i was very concerned. in the past we've always come together as a country whether it was pearl harbor, 9/11. we've always unified. this was the first time there was an attack by a foreign enemy power that we remained divided. i thought, what is this, why is
this happening. we need to let americans know how critical this is. not only the disinformation campaign, the hacking of dnc and podesta and all that, but cyber warfare and what it can do. this is a new form of warfare. we are at war in a cyber war. and we don't know how yet to defend ourselves. we need that 9/11 type commission so we can understand what happened to us and protect ourselves in the future, because this is the battlefield that this is going to be waged on. the soviet union is broke. they've got an i con mk i con ee size of italy or something.
>> the obama administration didn't understand we were at war. but this is something where russia agrees that they're at war with us. >> yes. >> is it a sign, is it a consciousness of guilty that this administration will not meet russia on a battlefield russia is claiming? >> you could look at it as a consciousness of guilt. but you could also look at it as self-preservation and self-dealing. everything with trump is about him. he doesn't care about anything except him. so if he is not willing to say, hey, we were attacked, you think about what george w. bush did in 9/11. that 9/11 commission was not -- he was not saying, oh, let's have one because he knew it might be embarrassing to him. things would come out. yet at a certain point you put
the country over your presidency. because the safety of all americans is at stake. we don't see this happening for donald trump because his safety is could be jeopardized if it's found out he was fraudulently elected or he's delegitimized in some way. >> we're're finding out from ji kimmel and morgan freeman, using these platforms in order to get the american people to see issues, do you think this is what it's going to take, because it's still hard to explain to americans why russia gate matters to them. >> that's why we're doing what we're doing, because we want the public to understand. it's a very complicated issue. there are a lot of moving parts. people can't put their minds around it. it's simple to understand an
atom bomb dropping. this is potentially as orb more dangerous in terms of what cyber warfare can do. >> yeah. when you heard about these 21 states that were now 10 months later learning that russia did breach their election systems, what do you make of the fact that we still can't get a comprehensive list of the states? >> that's the problem here. our democracy is under attack. we've been a healthy democracy for 241 years. i don't want to be doomsday about all this but great civiluaticivi civilizations last anywhere from 250 to 300 years and we see a weakening of our democracy by what the russians are doing. they've basically exploited our divisions. >> how do people contact the committee to investigate russia?
>> investigaterussia.org. up next, my interview with hillary clinton. you don't want to his that. 's oo work in alaska. this is john. he's on his way to work in new mexico. willie and john both work for us, a business that employs over 90,000 people in the u.s. alone. we are the coca-cola company, and we make much more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and all of our products rely on the same thing we all do... clean water. which is why we have john leading our efforts to replenish every drop of water we use. we believe our business thrives when our communities thrive. which is just one of the reasons we help make college a reality
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fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. how do we come to grips with the 2016 election, argue mri ab of the biggest electoral college driven upsets in political history and the first election likely to have fallen victim to foreign intervention. it's something millions of americans have been asking even months after the shock of election day. now we're hearing from the woman at the heart of it all, hillary clinton. she's out with a new book titled simple "what happened." i spoke with secretary clinton not just about what happened but what we do now.
secretary clinton, hillary r rodham clinton. >> it's really exciting to be here talking to you about this. >> thank you. i want to congratulate you on the book. it is surprising, i think, in a lot of ways, because it's very personal. it's actually very emotional in points. it's very wonky. cathartic to w was it painful? >> it was both. i really had to work at it every day. sometimes i would work on part of a chapter or re-read research that i was compiling to make sure i was given the accurate information and i'd have to lie down. it was so hard. finally getting through it, it turned out to be cathartic.
>> the thing i hear most often from people who voted for you is this is the hardest thing they've experienced. even people who didn't vote and later wished they did. has this been worse for you, the trump-era than you expected it to be? >> it has been. i really had such deep doubts about his preparation, his temperament, his character, his experience, but he's been even worse than i thought he would be. i thought and i tried in my concession speech to make clear that we should all give him the space to be president for every person. that's what we want from our presidents. we want to feel like the person in the oval office really cares about and is looking after everybody. that just hasn't turned out to be the case, starting with the
inauguration, which is how i opened the book talking about how excruciating it was to go and what a missed opportunity for him because all he did was reinforce the dark, divisive image of america that he'd been feeding to his supporters. >> throughout the book, one of the threads that runs through it is about sexism and misogyny. i feel like in the 2008 election we sort of litigated the question of race. have we as a country dealt with the question of whether sexism and misogyny is prominent in this society? >> no, we haven't. obviously we've made progress. my life has seen so much progress on behalf of knocking down institutional barriers and laws and other obstacles to women's progress. but i devote a whole chapter to what i call endemic sexism and misogyny because it's very clear we have a lot more work to do and it's not only in politics.
it's obviously in business and the media and every part of our society. i think elevating it and making it visible and forcing a conversation about it is absolutely essential. and i tried to be as candid as i could not only about what happened to me that i lived through, but what i see happening to woman in politics, women who might someday run for president, women who are struggling to be taken seriously in silicon valley or wherever. we see these horrible efforts to turn the clock back on women. >> you know, when you heard or watched on television and heard people, thousand gse guttural cf lock her up, when you saw some of the truly awful things people were wearing on their bodies -- i can remember being in cleveland and seeing women putting buttons and t-shirts on that used the b-word, the c-word
about you. when you saw that, how did that make you feel? >> it was deeply troubling on several levels. and i try to unpack this, because first of all it's not pleasant to be called names and to be subjected to the kind of insults that come across the online media all the time, which we see when women express an opinion. so on a personal level, it was both distressing, but also somewhat problematic because it's one thing for people individually to express those views, but for a candidate running for president of the united states to give permission to those views being put out into the public arena, in fact to encourage it and carry it on,
to make it a center piece of his convention, which should be a time of incredible excitement to have somebody nominated for president and instead was distoepian and negative and pointed against me. when i see women -- it's predominantly white women. let's just be clear about that. i won women. i lost white women, though i got more white women's votes than obama did in 2012. when i see women doing that, i think why are they publicly disrespecting themselves? why are they opening the door to have someone say that about them in their workplace, in a community setting? do they not see the connection there? and i think that's one of the problems with sexism. we had such a public and still an ongoing movement to expand civil rights. again, i'm proud of the
progress, but we still have a lot of problems we have to confront. because electing barack obama did not end racism, as we know all too well. but it gave the country a chance to say, hey, wait a minute, we are better than this. with sexism, it is still not viewed as the serious threat it is to women's aspirations, to the ability of young girls to imagine themselves doing all kinds of things. so i'm happy to have people disagree with me. i don't agree with her on health or the economy or immigration, whatever they want to disagree with me about. but when they resort to sexism, it says they don't really know what their own arguments are and number two they are opening that door even wider for sexism and misogyny to be used against them and people they love. >> you write about new hampshire and those early days in iowa.
i was on that listening tour as part of the media. i can remember talking to particularly young white women who surprisingly enough were more likely than young white men in those two states to say, it doesn't matter me having a woman president. that's not something i priorityize. what is that about? >> i think it's about and i try to unpack it also in the book -- i think it's about the stage that a young woman finds herself at any particular point in time. >> when you graduate high school as a young woman you're pretty much at wage parity with men. once you're in your 20s, you no longer are. once you have a child, marriage, you fall even further behind.
you don't understand all of the invisible signals and attitudes that are at work that can hold you back. that's why i've been really proud of young women in silicon valley speaking up. they didn't sign up for sexual harassment and assault. they've got the education, the drive and the ambition, a word that should be good for girls as well as boys. but all of a sudden, they're speaking out and saying this is a hostile workplace. we're not going to put up with it. if you haven't yet experienced that -- and that certainly was my observation as i would speak with and hear reports about many young women who thought, okay, we're beyond that. look, i'm doing fine. it's only through more experience -- and this is not to be a downer. this is just to describe the reality that faces women as you go through the work force and the kind of hidden views about
women's place that begin to affect you personally. >> so you do talk a lot about race in the book and the things that you learned along the way, the people who the white working class voters who were with you in 2008, who were suddenly screaming at you in west virginia and kentucky. during the campaign you talked very bluntly about race. you said some things about white privilege, about black lives matter, about police violence and its racial component that really had not typically been said in a campaign. do you believe looking back now that that forthrightness on race is what cost you those white working class voters? >> i think it was a combination of a lot of factors, but that was certainly part of the equation. i thought it was imperative to speak out because i come from a long tradition of standing up against racism, sexism, trying to expand the circle of
opportunity for everybody. and there were things going on in the country that were disturbing to me. i also was struck by the resear research, which i mentioned in the book, that we had this very successful two-term black american president. i was honored to serve him. i was proud of the job he did. but starting in 2012, scholars who follow race attitudes began to see a backlash that was clearly in part a reaction to president obama, someone who had conducted himself where such dignity, who had done an honorable and excellent job. so i could see that there was beginning to be a turning and i was very disturbed by that. i thought, we need to bring it up. don't pretend you can hide it under the rug or in the corner. but it was something that most
likely i paid a political price for. but as i write in the book about the mothers of the movement, women i came to know who had lost children to gun violence either by gangs on random shooting or police actions, i was so in awe of their strength and their dignity and their faith, i wanted the rest of the country to sort of see that. you can't identify with what you don't know and you never see. so i wanted people maybe through my campaign, which is why i did so much with mothers of the movement, way they travhy they with me, spoke on my behalf. we have to create more empathy and understanding again. i don't think it's a job that is ever finished. but as we saw in charlottesville, race is a huge negative force that motivates
these white supremacists and nazis. >> donald trump has created a lot of blunt talk on his views on race. you know his history regarding the central park five, his history regarding housing discrimination in new york. in your view, i mean, this has been said about him, is donald trump a white supremacist? >> i certainly think there's a lot of evidence has to how he has behaved historically and as president. i can't look into his heart. i can't say what he really feels, because i think hegs such a political opportunist, that if he could get votes from a different direction, he would probably go there. but he started off from the very first day attacking mexicans, calling them rapists. he had dog whistles that got increasingly louder on
immigrants and latinos and african-americans and women and muslims and the whole panoply of scapegoats that he was holding out to his supporters as the explanation for whatever their grievance was. what i try to say in the book is, look, you need both economic justice and social justice. i was trying to argue for both. i think i had the best plans, the best ideas, the most workable ways of trying to lift incomes and provide a more inclusive economy and tax the wealthy to pay for stuff we needed like infrastructure and so forth. i'm not going to back off social justice. it's one of the great accomplishments of our nation. so much that has said to our fellow americans, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, you're part of the american wonderful experience and you are welcome at the table.
come and contribute, make a difference. so i don't think he sees the world that way. i think he sees it in a very dark, divisive way as we heard in the u.n. speech. it's us versus them. his us is very much defined by his own experience and by what we can point to. his us is also how he tried to motivate voters to be for him and he didn't really repudiate david duke, he didn't really repudiate a lot of the white supremacists who came out strongly for him. i called him out in a speech in las vegas in august of 2016 about the so-called alt right, which is certainly very much grounded in white supremacy. so i think he has to be judged on his record. >> we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, hillary clinton will tell you what she thinks of vladimir putin and whether she could have fired jim
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call, visit, or go to xfinitymobile.com. if hillary clinton was president today, it's safe to say a lot of things would be different. but would former fbi director james comey have a job? maybe not. the book is called "what happened" so i want to get into a few of the what happens. contrary to what some folks have said, you do talk about your own campaign's missteps. let's start with james comey. you're very critical of him. >> yes. >> i want to take you back to 1993 and a president named bill clinton fired the fbi director william sessions. ironically enough, given what
we're dealing with today for the hhs secretary for the misuse of planes and cars. had you have become president of the united states, would james comey have been ushered out in much the same way? >> i thought about that, joy. it's such a hypothetical. i would have certainly looked hard at it. as i write in the book, much of what he did violated department of justice protocol. it was unprecedented. it was outside the bounds of what prosecutors do, let alone an investigator, which what his job was. that troubled me, because you don't want people acting rashly, impulsively, or in this case, as some have suggested, under pressure for political purposes. so i would have had to really think hard about that. now, what i believe strongly and the case i make in the book is separate out what he did to me,
which i think was wrong, unprecedented and ultimately cost me the election because of the october 28th letter and what he was doing on russia. you can be critical of what he did in the e-mail investigation, but you can also be very critical of trump deciding to fa fire him over the russia investigation. you have to keep those two competing thoughts in your head at one time. >> you talk about the russian interference in the election. you were obviously during the campaign getting intelligence or word that, listen, there's hacking going on, there is an attack on the country from russia that is attempting to interfere in the election. the president knew it. presumably the trump campaign was getting the same information. at this point do you believe that the trump campaign colluded to assist russia in interfering in our election? >> i don't think we can reach that conclusion. i think there are lots of facts that are being proven every day,
that there was certainly communication by e-mail, phone, in person. there was certainly an attempt by many of the trump associates to hide the connections that they had with representatives of the russian government and people close to putin. we know that putin was intent upon helping trump. that's no longer subject to debate. we knew that he wanted to defeat me. that's also accepted. now what we're finding out is how some of that happened. the interference with the election included everything from what we now know about facebook ads and posting. i was so amused when senator mark warner pointed out the facebook ads were paid for with rubles. we now know that without a doubt that the dnc had materials
stolen through russian intelligence efforts, through cyber attacks, which then migrant migrated to wikileaks. we know a lot, but i'm going to leave it to the investigators in both the congress and the special council to actually come up with whatever legal conclusions. were there laws broken, what more do we need to know. i want to make this point. it's really important to say this. even if there was not all of this smoke around the trump campaign's involvement with the russians, we should still be really upset and determined to do something about it. if i had been elected president and i knew this was out there, even if in some other
alternative universe it helped me instead of my opponent, i would have demanded we do an independent commission with all the authority needed, subpoena power to get to the bottom of this because it's not going to stop. it has been too successful for putin. now we're hearing these bragging comments from russian media persons, from russian members of parliament and their government saying, yeah, you know, we picked a president. we won an election. that should terrify every american. i don't care what party you are. maybe it was me today. it could be somebody else tomorrow. trump has this phony voter fraud commission which is not a problem that anybody besides the most rabid republicans want to pursue in order to suppress even more votes, particularly african-americans and young people so they can try to further pervert the electorate
to elect their candidates. they should be having a five alarm committee that is looking at everything that we can do to protect ourselves. virginia just stopped using touch screen computer voting because it's so vulnerable. we need to look at all the voting machines. every secretary of state needs to be assisted in making sure they are not being hacked and attacked. i know the russians had a heavy thumb on the scale and i know it affected voters, because we track it in the book about what people were looking at primarily when they dumped all the wikileaks stuff. and we know they had to have gotten really good advice about how to be political strategic in doing that. >> you write in the book that part of you wished president obama at the time had come out and given a big national address to warn americans of russian interference. have you spoken with former president obama about that? >> i talked to him a couple of
weeks ago. i haven't had a chance to sit down and talk with him, i've been really so focused on getting the book done. but i've talked to people from the white house. here's how i so this. first of all, when something unprecedented happens, it is hard to know what to do. he thought i was going to win. he told me that the night before in philadelphia, big hug, so proud of you, you're going to do this. he and michelle could not have been better in supporting and advising me. and i think he didn't want to look like he was in any way using the office of the presidency to partisan ends. obviously he was campaigning for me, but this is a national security issue. i also think that he was under pressure from the other side. and i write about this. mitch mcconnell basically threatened the white house and the democratic leadership in the
congress, if you go public with the intelligence we have been provided, we will call it partisan. >> does that make them complicit? >> i think there is a lot of questions about it. but he in particular acted in a partisan rather than patriotic manner. harry reid, who like everyone who was briefed on this intelligence, was really upset and tried to keep forcing comey, because my other problem with comey is he was perfectly happy to talk about a really dumb mistake i made with e-mails that became an even dumber scandal, but he wasn't willing to tell anybody, oh yeah and we're investigating trump and the russians. he would not do that. so harry reid wrote him in i think late august basically saying, come on, there are reports in the press, get out there and tell the american people. now, having said all that, of
course i wish there had been some way given the predicament the president found himself in to alert the public. once i lost and all this ton of information started flooding out about everything that was happening, the dutch were able to prevent russian interference in their election, the french could prevent it, the germans are working to prevent it, because they all knew. and they could make the case to their electorate. you may be whatever party you are, but we cannot tolerate a to foreign adversary trying to pick our next leader. >> you've been in public life for a long time. but the thing people knew was e-mails. what do you make of political ju journalists? you're tough on the media in this book and the coverage of your e-mail server. what do you make of people who say the e-mail scandal was not
the media's fault, it was your fault? >> i made the mistake. trump had a million mistakes before he ever ran and once he decliered ared to run. that didn't matter. the e-mails was a constant date. i've talked to members of the press. look, i am a huge proponent of the first amendment and we need a really smart, savvy press. and here's what members of the press have basically said to me. first of all, yeah, it was a legitimate subject to cover. we over did it. i couldn't agree more. especially when you compare that in 2016 there were only 32 minutes on tv -- i guess that's the five major networks -- devoted to all policies. so i don't blame voters for not knowing that i had gang busters college affordability and a gang busters way to fix and better
affordable care act and everything else. 32 minutes for all policies and 100 minutes on my e-mails. after a while, there was nothing new to say. all of the crazy accusations were just not true and you can read it and you can see. it's not my voice. it's people who have credibility on these issues. that really did bother me. it was way over hyped. again, there was this attitude like you're going to win anyway, so we have to vet you harder. trump is the reality tv show candidate. you're going to be the next president. which is a terrible assumption to make. because what we found in this election is it really matters how the press covers someone who is so unusual as trump was with the same tough standards consistently. you don't give him 30 minutes of podium time, an empty podium. you need to be going after all the things he did to people, you know, his scandals, his
bankruptcies. yeah, you report it, but hey, that hurt real people. there was no evidence anything i did ever had any impact. so i think there was such a disproportionate response, a lack of understanding about be fair if you're going to cover me like this, cover the other guy like this. if you look at those words clouds, e-mail dominates mine and terrorism and immigration dominates his. the exit polls were interesting. for people who cared about the economy, i won those voters. if you cared about immigration or terrorism, he won those voters, even though i was the one in the situation room advising the president about going after bin laden. it would not have matters except for james comey's october 28th letter. we weathered his preference, which was so unfair and wrong. we weathered, you know, all of the attacks coming from trump
and his people. we had a great convention. i won three debates. we were really riding momentum. and then people had every reason to wonder what does this mean. and i don't know why he did it. i think it's very telling that rudy gruiuliani knew he was goi to do it two days before. there was a lot of reporting that giuliani and current and retired members of the fbi were dead set against me and so they were pressuring comey to do even more. the whole thing i think reflects very badly on his judgment and his objectivity. >> more of my one on one interview with hillary clinton, next.
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how does the democratic party defend its legacy and find a way forward? i asked hillary clinton about the republicans' latest attempt to repeal obamacare and what the democrats should be doing to fight back. i wanted to ask you -- we've seen this past week the senator from vermont, the independent senator bernie sanders and democrats, more than a dozen democrats roll out a single payer plan, medical care fre fo.
in your view, was it a mistake to roll out single payer while republicans are still actively trying to repeal obamacare? >> look, it's an aspirational goal. i've long been committed to universal health care that's high quality and affordable for ear everyone. i know we've got a long way to go. i am a staunch supporter of the affordable care act because it got us to 90% coverage and we only had 10% more to go. i think this last gasp threat that the republicans are posing is incredibly serious. i don't think anybody should be spending time on anything else right now until we defeat it again. that means all the energy that you can bring to making the arguments against it, don't divert our discussion right now. let's finish that off. they talked about repeal and replace for years. it was a fraud, it was phony.
they need to be held accountable for that. and what they have put forward now would devastate 32 million americans who would lose their coverage. it puts medicaid on a path to be basically eliminated. don't listen to what they say otherwise because that's exactly what they're trying to do. it removes essential benefits, everything from pregnancy and maternity care and well child visits and mental health and addiction services. it's a disaster. it's mean. it's cruel. everybody needs to be standing up and saying the same thing right now. and if you are someone with followers and constituents who you can mobilize to make their views known or even speak on behalf of people in other states where there may be a republican senator who can be influenced, that's what everybody should be doing. i'm tweeting about it. i'm speaking about it.
because it's a lot easier to get from 90 to 10 than to start all over. let's make sure that while people are arguing this debates of this aspirational goal and the best way to get to universal coverage, that we don't put anybody's life at risk, that we don't deny people their human right to have health care. that's what i'm going to keep talking about. >> it's pretty remarkable that when it was called hillary care when you were first lady, the republican response was bob dole's plan which was similar to obamacare. >> that's right. >> the party has changed. >> because they are enthrall to their biggest idealogical, partisan donors. the forces at work in the republican party right now are really driven by ideology, religion, partisan advantage and commercial advantage. they keep saying -- i mean, one of the republican senators said
the other day, well, yeah, it's probably pretty bad but we promised we'd do it. what a total abdication of responsibility to the people you are supposed to represent. you don't have a better idea. there's been some bipartisan efforts to try to come up with some better ideas. those have been stopped now because republicans want to force through this terrible trojan horse, making these claims that are easily dispelled. i want to give a shoutout to jimmy kimmel who has used his own personal experience with the birth of his son to really hold the republicans accountable. we can't let them get away with these outrageous, untrue comments. that's what everybody needs to be doing. we've got until september 30th. once september 30th comes then they have to get 60 votes. they no longer have the chance to pass it with 51. i'll breathe a big sigh of
relief if we can hold it off and make sure it doesn't happen. >> i'd like you to see just one more clip from our interview. how hillary clinton will one day explain what happened to her grandchildren. you have a granddaughter. she's about to turn 3. >> she is. >> how will you explain this period in your life when she's old enough to understand it? >> i have thought about that, because whenever she could, i was so happy to see her on the campaign trail. she saw our campaign slogan, the h with the arrow and she would point at it and say grandma, you know. so obviously i am motivated by what we need to do for kids for the next generation, not just mine, but everyone's. i think i will explain to her pretty much in line with what i explained in the book. i wrote this book for myself,
first and foremost, to really come to grips with what happened and what my role in it was and what all these other extraneous factors were. because i don't want what happened to happen again and i layo out a lot of evidence. i say, look if you have a different theory, i'll meet you at dawn. i'm open to it. it's not enough to say, i won 3 million more votes. to dismiss my campaign, it's not just me, it's 65.8 million people. i wrote it for them too. i wrote it for people who were so devastated by what happened in this election and continue to be just upset and even stunned by what trump is doing. i want them to know, it's okay, it's okay to feel like that, because this is abnormal. and we can't ever give up our feelings that there is something
amiss with the man we've got in the white house right now. i want them to read this book and get more ammunition and support for how they are feeling, because i think it's important that we never give up resisting and protesting against what we see is bad for our country and bad for the world. and i will explain that to charlotte and when he's old enough to aidan, because i have known a lot of presidents now. i've met them, i've worked for them, i was married to one. i had disagreements with a lot of them, not just republicans, on my side too. but i never doubted that they were trying to figure out how to keep this big, diverse, raucous, wonderful country of ours together and moving forward with optimism and energy. that's not what we have right now. and i don't want my granddaughters and grandson or any child to feel like this is
normal, that it's normal for a president not to condemn white supremacy and neo nazis and klu klux klan and racism and sexism. it's not normal for someone to hold the highest office and to cavalierly talk about nuclear war and to be unguided, in fact, rejecting facts and reason and evidence. it's just not normal. so i will hopefully at some point when she's a lot older be able to try to explain that to her. >> thank you so much for your time. i appreciate it. >> thank you, joy. thank you so much for what you do every day. this is the drug enforcement agency.
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repeal obamacare? >> look, it's an aspirational goal. i've long been committed to universal health care that's high quality and affordable for everyone. i think this last gasp threat that republicans are posing is incredibly serious. i don't think anybody should be spending time on anything else right now until we defeat it again. >> hillary clinton was particularly passionate about addressing the republican effort to repeal and replace obamacare during our interview. back with me now to discuss my guest. it was a different hillary clinton in a lot of ways. she was very intermat and loose and relaxed. is that because she's not in politics anymore? >> i think that's exactly right. now it's almost as if, look, i'm not going to run for political office. i get to put it out there for my voice. how i saw things. which i think is phenomenal.
like i started reading the book. i have not finished it yet. it really -- she really gives you insight as to what she was thinking. it's honest. >> yes. >> it's real. >> yeah. >> but the big take away that i took from this is the stark contrast that you see between her and donald trump. the thoughtfulness that she's smart and understand and cares about the constitution about, this country that we just don't see from the man that's sitting behind the oval office. >> that's a good point she kept coming back to this idea. i want the bipartisan default that we sometimes hear, sometime even our own profession. it was more that presidents of both parties had a core belief in uniting the country had, a core belief in doing policy that's good for all citizens. whereas donald trump is focused on getting his base to applaud. just get them to applaud. >> and for him. right? it's all about him. and we saw. that we saw that in the transition of power between obama and donald trump and also the speech, the horrible speech that donald trump gave at the
inauguration, every president before him would give a uniting speech. they though they just came out of an election. let's bring the country together. donald trump hasn't been able to do that and will not. >> is hillary clinton in a position to help the resistance movement? she's not a former president. she can speak. do you think -- or do you think left is too divided? >> not at all. the woman's march happened. people wanted to hear from hillary clinton. she actually talked about that in her book where she was having incertainly strife. should she go to a march? should she say something? she decided i'm going to step back, let all this play out. i remember friends, folks i were meeting saying where is hillary? we need to hear from her. remember, she won three million more votes than the other guy, the guy we have in the oval office. she won the popular vote, yes. people want to hear from her. >> i have to say, it is a bittersweet thing to hear an intelligent woman who really laz
thought about poll sichlt she's a grandma and a woman who really thought these things through. she's not president. >> yeah. >> because the electoral college. my friend, thank you very much much that's our show for today. catch us right here at saturdays and sundays at 10:00 a.m. keep it right here on msnbc. i'll never find a safe used car. start at the new carfax.com show me minivans with no reported accidents. boom. love it. [struggles] show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com.
he's on his way to work in alaska. this is john. he's on his way to work in new mexico. willie and john both work for us, a business that employs over 90,000 people in the u.s. alone. we are the coca-cola company, and we make much more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and all of our products rely on the same thing we all do... clean water. which is why we have john leading our efforts to replenish every drop of water we use. we believe our business thrives when our communities thrive. which is just one of the reasons we help make college a reality for thousands of students. today, companies need to do more. so john and willie are trying to do just that. thank you for listening. we're listening too.
good day, everyone. i'm alex witt in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it is high noon in the east. 9:00 a.m. out west on this day 247 of the trump administration. here's what's happening. president trump and new uproar in the sports world. from the message from the nfl commissioner to fresh tweets about steph curry's white house invitation. pointed reactions spreading with speed and force. the fate of the latest gop health care bill. a vote is expected soon but are there now too many republican defectors? >> it's the last thing searchers needed.